The Truth About Modern Civil War in Photographs

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Author of Be Ready for Anything and Bloom Where You’re Planted online course

Many of us have suggested that the United States is on the verge of a civil war. Folks can’t get along. They’re divided to the point that they literally hate their neighbors based on the bumper sticker on the car from the last election.

Both “sides” seem to think that the other would be easily defeated. Both factions seem to be at a simmering point at which they believe violence has become warranted. Both factions believe they possess some power that would wipe out the other side in a matter of days. It reminds me of that scene from Gone with the Wind when Scarlett is at the barbecue and all the young men run away from the girls in their pretty dresses, confident that they’ll whoop some Yankee butt and be home in a week or two.

But it didn’t happen like that then and it wouldn’t happen like that now. Back in the days of Rhett and Scarlett, they had some cannons and some guns that were quite awkward compared to the weapons we have now. Back then, the homes were burned. But in a modern civil war with modern weapons, an American Civil War would be exponentially worse than the one in the 1860s.

I am currently spending about a month over in the Balkans doing some research and taking a survival course. (If you want to read about the trip, go here.) And what I’ve learned about modern civil war would hopefully make any rational human being think twice about it being a viable solution to our country’s problems.

Here’s what modern civil war looks like.

Over the past couple of weeks, I have been through at least a dozen cities and small towns in Bosnia, and there is something I noticed that I didn’t expect. It is from this post more than all the others I’ve written about this trip that I believe we can learn the most.

Every single place I’ve been, from the south of this country to the north, has buildings that are scarred from the war. From large cities to tiny villages, no place seems to have been exempt from the damage.

There are bullet holes, bigger marks from shells, entire missing stories on homes and businesses, gouges from shrapnel. Some buildings have more damage than others but most buildings around during the war have some damage.

Selco has written about all this great detail in his book telling the stories of life in these times. (The book is also avaible in PDF format for only $5.49)

This article is loaded with photos and videos to document what I’ve seen. Imagine the terror of being in one of these buildings while this damage was being sustained. Then imagine living through this for years.

And while you were being shot at and shelled, you had no running water and no food, you had to defecate outside, you had no power of any kind, and your windows were blown out, and it was winter.

It truly can happen anywhere.

Nobody every thinks this kind of thing can happen anywhere that they live. But Bosnia has the scars to prove that indeed, it can. First, let me assure you that it’s a very modern country. People weren’t over here using outhouses and eating pigeons before the war. They followed the American fashions and television show. They are well-educated. There are a few cultural differences but it’s a misconception to believe that Bosnia was some kind of third-world country. They weren’t before the war and they aren’t now.

It used to all be one big country over here – Yugoslavia. There were years of division and other countries formed, but the language is basically the same in each country. If you speak, Croat, they’ll understand you in Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, and the rest of the Balkan countries.

During the Balkan War of the early 90s, people in the same cities were fighting one another and the whole thing is pretty complicated. I’m sure if I tried to explain it as per my understanding, numerous “experts” would pop up, ignore the whole point of the article, and spend half an hour proving me wrong. So for the sake of possibly avoiding said comments, let me just say, a few of the players were Croats, Bosniaks, Bosnians, and Serbs.  And people in the Balkan region deciding to kill other people in the Balkan region.

Civil war.

Ethnic cleansing.


Of course, the pot was stirred by politicians and the media – sound familiar? But that is a story for another article.

The damage on the buildings tells the story.

The damage to the buildings is the stone version of scars on a human body. And behind every scar is a story.

The scars tell of people under relentless attack. There was a constant incoming barrage of shells and rounds from sniper rifles.

Selco told me that something hit his house about every five minutes for a year. It became a thing that was no longer shocking, to have one’s windows blown out or holes put into their home.

The scars tell of the fact that nowhere was safe from enemies intent on genocide. The country homes are damaged just like the city homes.

So if you feel perfectly safe in your current location, you should know, in an all-out SHTF situation, no place is immune and nobody is exempt.

There are some smaller homes that were shielded from most of the sniper fire by larger homes, but that didn’t stop a shell from being lobbed onto the roof of those smaller homes. There wasn’t notably one town that was less damaged than other towns, at least not that I have seen.

People don’t talk about the war.

As I’ve written before, the people of Bosnia are warm and friendly. They want to feed you and introduce you to their delicious regional specialties like cevapi and local beer.

They do not talk about the war, aside from Selco, of course, but the marks of it are everywhere.

Every place I’ve been is deeply scarred.

Some buildings were so badly damaged they were abandoned, yet their skeletons remain, standing as a silent reminder. The bones of an old school. The bones of somebody’s home. A shop, an office building, a former apartment building that housed dozens.

Other buildings were damaged but are still in service, home to new generations who plugged the holes from a large caliber bullet on the inside to keep the draft out.

But from the outside, you can still see where enemy fire pierced that apartment before – and many times these bullets went in one side of the building and out the other side, leaving a matching exit wound, so Selco tells me. Anyone sitting in their home in the way of those rounds would not have survived. And of course, there was no way to know where such a shot would hit.

There was no place that was safe, not even in your own home. The video below shows what it was like during the Siege of Sarajevo and when you look at the pictures I’ve taken here you can see how lasting the damage has been.

You can see some buildings pockmarked by what must have been a constant barrage. Other buildings only sustained a dozen hits or so. But it’s rare to find an older building that is unmarked. I don’t believe I’ve seen one.

Here’s how people lived during the war

And you see these buildings in the video below taken in Sarajevo during the war? These apartments without windows, with crumbling balconies, with gaping holes in the exterior walls where they took fire? People lived there still, in these broken buildings, because where else could they go?

And there they lived in these buildings with no power, no running water, no place to go to the toilet, no windows, no food, no heat.

And that was the better option.

In the streets, out in the open, it was even worse than being in buildings being constantly attacked, because then a person was a ripe target for the snipers who stationed themselves in the hills above Sarajevo and many other cities and towns in Bosnia.

A trip across an open space was a run for one’s life. A sprint. A question. Are you faster than a bullet?

It’s said that for the snipers, it was a game to shoot people just trying to go down the street and that they gambled and toyed with their victims like cats with mice, blowing off someone’s leg and then watching the victim drag themselves almost to safety. Almost.

Some of the snipers have been tried at the Hague as war criminals and found guilty. Others who committed evil, brutal acts are now in positions of power.

When I was walking with Selco he said, “This place was safe, but one step over there was not. We would hear volleys of 10-15 shots, then a pause. That’s when we ran to the next safe space. Sometimes the pause was a shooter reloading and sometimes it was not.” Even in his own garden, there were safe zones and danger zones within a foot of one another.

This was not just in big cities.

Sure, the stuff we heard about on the news was the big cities. Sarajevo in particular.

But this was happening everywhere. Smaller cities had sniper posts above them too. Farms and country homes also came under fire.

The most important thing I’ve learned and that I want to share with you is that it’s a mistake to think that if you live in a town under a certain population that you will be “safe.” In a war, no place is safe. Buildings everywhere were devastated. People everywhere fell victim to genocide.

Enemy soldiers and snipers were intent on destroying the country and everyone in it, rural or urban. Resources were scarce and if people thought you had something they needed, they were coming for you.

The war is over but the scars remain.

After the war, survivors repaired broken buildings. They replaced windows. Some people tried to cover the marks that were made during the war. Others did not. It could be because of the money it costs to remove the signs of damage.

Or did they want to remind themselves of how quickly things can fall apart? How one day you can be walking to the market to get food for supper and then the next day, people are shooting at you and shelling your home?

The Balkan War was essentially an incredibly complicated civil war but you don’t have to understand the politics behind it to understand the lessons we can take from it.

It sounds terrifyingly familiar.

It’s easy to say that nothing like this could ever happen in America, but when you’ve seen the remnants of that dark time, you realize that the people in Bosnia probably thought it could never happen there either.

You realize that one-day things are normal except for some loud-mouthed politicians fighting. There are a few protesters. There are people who disagree politically, but that’s as old as time, right?

Then the next day, you’re under siege because some of those loud-mouthed “leaders” persuaded people to take action. No one ever thinks, “Tomorrow, I will be a victim of an attempted ethnic cleansing. Tomorrow, a political movement will become violent and people will try to kill me, my neighbors, and everyone I love.”

And the people of Bosnia never thought they’d be under siege for years, either.

In each scar that remains in Bosnia, there is a story. And in each story, there is a lesson.

Other articles in this series:

About Daisy

Daisy Luther is a coffee-swigging, gun-toting blogger who writes about current events, preparedness, frugality, voluntaryism, and the pursuit of liberty on her website, The Organic Prepper. She is widely republished across alternative media and she curates all the most important news links on her aggregate site, Daisy is the best-selling author of 4 books and runs a small digital publishing company.  She lives in the mountains of Virginia with her family. You can find her on FacebookPinterest, and Twitter.

Daisy Luther

Daisy Luther

Daisy Luther is a coffee-swigging, globe-trotting blogger. She is the founder and publisher of three websites.  1) The Organic Prepper, which is about current events, preparedness, self-reliance, and the pursuit of liberty on her website, 2)  The Frugalite, a website with thrifty tips and solutions to help people get a handle on their personal finances without feeling deprived, and 3), an aggregate site where you can find links to all the most important news for those who wish to be prepared. She is widely republished across alternative media and  Daisy is the best-selling author of 5 traditionally published books and runs a small digital publishing company with PDF guides, printables, and courses. You can find her on FacebookPinterest, Gab, MeWe, Parler, Instagram, and Twitter.

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  • I have to believe that you, Daisy, will forever be marked by this experience. Thank you for passing this along although reading about something so horrific while in the comfort of our homes can never bring the full impact to bear. Looking forward to more.

  • Daisy, I am a disabled vet. I was, like many others, drafted during the Viet Nam “Episode” and stayed in the military through Dessert Storm. Like many others I have stories to tell. Most people in the US are not interested in what we, the veterans of many wars, have to offer from experience. The war that is upon us is NOT a true “Civil War” as it has already started by the invaders that pretend to be our countrymen. I speak six languages and have served in a total of 17 conflicts.

    The war that was declared against us has already started. It s one people against another. Most of our people do not “see” it.

    I am sorry for the doom and gloom but facts do not lie. There is no place that is safe.

      • I just posted a comment on this comment that took me some time to compose. I guess I hit the Submit button twice when I suddenly had a demand on my attention from somewhere else. Does that mean my comment is lost forever?
        :’-( Usually the little circle goes round and round and I didn’t see it doing that.

    • Jan,
      I wish that you lived in my small community in Minnesota. I had grandparents and uncles who were in major conflicts but they NEVER wanted to share any of the reality they faced. They just would not speak of it. Now, after a 40 year career as an RN I find myself very much wanting to know these facts and personal experiences. Your “stories” would be most welcome here. Take care

      • My father’s baby brother was the equivalent of today’s special Forces. He was in Germany before the surrender. He had photos from a “Camp’. Never spoke of things he saw but handed me pictures just once. That was enough to leave the stories to souvenirs et.
        Dad was in the Pacific. Arieal photographer of the Japanese Fleet and targets for bombers to study. He told more stories. Very different experiences.
        2 sons in Desert storm. One Navy on a ship bombarding from the ship. One Airforce. Air war went so quick he was used as a courier between Saudi and Kuwait. Years later he talked a bit about it. His best friend died infront of him and friends were killed in the barracks that were hit by scudd mistles. He volunteered to go help clean that up. Those things are never forgotten. Another son was a contractor in Iraq. Never speaks of it.
        War isn’t all glory. Its survival, pain and loss and some pride sprinkled in. For family we’re thankful for each one that came home. A brother in law was in Nam. Never spoke of anything except when he was toe tagged and thrown on a pile of dead bodies. A buddy dug for him to make sure he was properly tagged. Found him barely breathing and pulled him out and demanded he be cared for. He earned a silver star, multiple purple hearts and suffered because of agent orange. Only once told about his buddy. Never again spoke of Nam. A son in law flew one of the last helicopters out of Nam. Never said more than how awful it was flying a filled bird out with shells plinking on the sides and kids crying.

    • My 18yo son’s favorite pastime is to listen to older military men tell their stories and talk guns and planes with them. He has done this since he was 10. He is an old soul but knows the importance of the experience and knowledge being lost. I too am sorry no one will sit with you and listen, you are full of wisdom, untapped.

    • Not sure exactly when it started, 9/11…2008…Las Vegas? Nevertheless, it is well underway now…and…there is no going back!

    • Jan, I for one would be most interested in hearing your experiences and opinions. Perhaps when Daisy gets back from her trip, you two could talk about you presenting some guest posts!

    • I for one am interested in what our Vets have to say. Problem for me is how to ask since some of them don’t want to tell.

  • I remember when the media started reporting on this war. I saw pictures of refugee people and the biggest thing I noticed were the women. They had hair that had obviously been recently cut and colored. They were wearing earrings and, if they hadn’t looked scared and lonely, would have looked well cared for. That has never left my memory. I couldn’t fathom what tragedy had caused the sudden change in their lives.

    My oldest son served in Bosnia later. He has recently retired from the Army after 20 years. That service in Bosnia was the worst he endured. Even worse than Iraq. I won’t say the terrible thing he witnessed because it is too tragic. It was the only thing he shared with me, and it was heart wrenching for him and especially for me.

  • Notice buildings of stone, concrete, look at America stucco and wood….. there will be far less buildings left and zero place for most to hide.

    Second the civil war is here just not started hot phase yet.

    As for small places yugoslavia is a much smaller place than usa. More people in usa but consentrated in big cities and coast line. Fighting here will be a mix and not so easily contained sieges. Plus outside pressures from southern cartels will pose a problem in certain areas.

    Difference is hard survival skills over here very few even have any knowledge of it. We are marshmallow soft. We can’t produce our own food and we can’t get what we can produce to the people.

    Any disruption and 30 days later 50 percent dead would not be a shocker.

    • Namelus – I was thinking the same thing. Our buildings will not withstand anywhere near the same damage and as for the softness, you’re right on with regard to a huge amount of the population.

  • No offense, Daisy, but you are the one who is foolish.
    To begin with, there are not two sides here, there are two sides in the 25% that actually participate in this fraudulent United States Corporation “I vote” bullshit.
    The enemies of the Bill of Rights would just love for the other 75% that they do not control to jump in one of the two camps and slaughter each other because we are the threat, the only threat that can and will destroy them, both the phony fraudulent corporate left and the phony fraudulent corporate right.
    Don’t try to spook us with the comparison of the first uprising of the people and what it would look like today. We understand it perfectly as this abomination of a Republic has been in perpetual war since its inception. With the aid of that modern technology, we have seen every cruelty that can be imagined, you know, like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    You seem to be projecting yourself as one with a superior intellect. You are laughable. You’re goddamn right there is going to be an uprising in this country and it will be one that redefines man’s inhumanity to man.
    You see, a whole bunch of some people would rather be dead than live under subjugation and they really don’t give a damn how the killing and dying is accomplished. The armed population of my country is the largest army to ever exist on this planet.
    In reality you do not have the credentials to suggest that it is just too ugly to happen. It is going to happen. I would pay close attention at my survival class if I were you because you are going to want to find the deepest darkest hole on the highest mountain to hide in when it does happen. It is going to be looong, and it is going to be bloody, because once the American nationals stomp the United States Corporation, there will be foreign troops sent to our land, at least until we have control of our nuclear arsenal.
    My administrator put your article on From the Trenches, it will be the last. We don’t cotton to defeatism. When we win, you will be deported as you have already accepted your subjugation.

    • Dear Henry –

      I’m sorry that’s what you got from my article. I’m only reporting the similarities – the media propagating discord, the government playing one side against the other, and of course, reporting on the damage I’ve seen first hand.

      I’ve enjoyed working with you for these years and sincerely wish you the very best.

    • Wow Henry,…
      Some of us have gotten a tremendous amount of good from Daisy’s articles. I really want to comment more on your posting,…..but I am afraid I have to bite my tongue (errrr, fingers)! A lot of us know just how awful things could become (and are doing our best to prep),…. I deeply appreciate what Daisy shares.

    • Henry, couldn’t you have made your points and comments without being rude and abusive? Daisy wrote a balanced article. You don’t have to like it but you don’t have to act like an asshole either. When you “win” the civil war, how do you know she will be deported? LOL Comments like that make YOU sound ridiculous.

    • More people were killed by Japanese swords than died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Experts all agree that at least a million lives were saved by using the bombs. Crickets…..

      • Sorry, sir, but you are mistaken.

        The atomic bombs did not save anyone. It’s a shame that history is only written by the “winners.” When the bombs were dropped, Japan had been suing for peace for months. They already knew they had lost the war.

        The problem? Scientists wanted to play with their new toy and see how well it worked. Truman wanted “unconditional surrender.” He saw the bombs as a way to guarantee that and ordered them dropped.

        Over notice that the surrender terms Truman offered were exactly the same terms the Japanese asked for? Need more proof?

        FDR was the one that started WWII. I really detest “Chicken Hawks” – hawks for war that are too chicken to fight themselves (Bolton is a prime example, as are others in politics). Blood is always cheap when it isn’t your own. All this information has been declassified. From WWI to the present, the US has been behind them all. The weekend that things blew up in Grenada, I watched on PBS a documentary about declassified documents from WWII. We knew all Japanese codes before the war, during the war and after the war. There was no “surprise attack” – the US knew exactly what and when everything would happen. The Japanese never had a real chance; theirs was an act of desperation cause by acts by FDR to get the war started. Now he’s viewed as a hero by those to lazy to do a bit of real research.

        The only Constitutional War we ever fought (“provide for the common defense”) was the War of 1812. The rest were started to benefit the US and its allies as well as US corporations (much like Boeing, et al, today).

        The information is out there, just don’t use Google to look for it.

        To others, vets don’t talk about combat because you don’t really want to know. I was always asked, “Did you get shot?” and “Did you ever kill anyone?” You learn quickly to not answer. People look at you differently, treat you differently and it isn’t pleasant. When people are together they share experiences, that cause them to grow together through shared experiences and they understand each other and are comfortable with that. When a member of the group goes to battle, the experiences are no longer shared. Simply telling them or explaining them is not the same as actually sharing of the experience. The friends back home cannot relate and only consider a horror they want to avoid and soon the old friend are new strangers. Even vets don’t sit around and brag about their kills. The laugh about the goof ups and dumb thing that happened along the way. I’ve only heard pilots brag about their kills – probably because they don’t see it close up. They feel some thrill and not the fear.

        • There are books that were written by Japanese that survived the bombs. They do not agree with your post at all. Japan was not ready to surrender. I do not agree that all the people killed by the bombs was the best course of action but your post is not very informed at all. Try to do your own reading and not get brainwashed.

    • Henry, having serious empirical knowledge and physical experiences of such actual scenarios you are prophesizing since the late sixties subsequently as a contractor in these kinds of matters all over the world and career-wise but unfortunately absent of such higher knowledge as you claim to leverage over everybody else, i’m often accused of being too highly educated for my intellect, i still have to disagree with you on your emotional content as opposed to the reality factor.

      Yes, we are the most armed citizenry on the planet. But unfortunately we don’t really live in a free country, it’s all an pre-programmed illusion the lets us imagine we can wage a ‘Red Dawn’ action against an egregious over authoritarian totalitarian Police Control State until it actually starts to occur. Then the joke will be on all the Molon Labers. The Deep State power elite had long time plans ever since the LBJ cartel took out the Kennedys for potential uprisings. And every subsequent government regime made it better, or worse depending on perspective.

      The Die Hard ones will live up to their description, quickly and die first at first government muscle flex. The rest will then submit in full compliance after witnessing the ‘terrible Swift Sword’ of police state efficacy, causing any serious widespread resistance to come to a screeching slamming halt, barely before the MSN gets to cash in on the tabloid pump. I can do several pages on the actual tactics and equipment and psychology of attack they’ll use. I’ve written articles on this subject for other websites. There are weapons like sound cannons, new paralyizing gasses, microwave light intensities that make you fall down, at distance, writhing in pain, armed drones and tactical bullet proof robots and more. All legal in suppressing a DOMESTIC TERRORIST ATTEMPTED OVERTHROW OF THE NATION. in a state of emergency or marshal law.

      Notwithstanding the fact that they won’t even get to use them all because of how shockingly fast this will bitch slap all the armchairborne warriars into immediately puking up all their weapons and ammo, if they want to live. Because long before it even gets to that kind of one sided carnage for the piss ant populate, The super surveillance state that We The People allowed to happen that already knows all of the ring leaders and ‘dissidents’ likely to be instigators and shit talkers all armed up like you will be first responded to to decapitate the head of the snake and make examples for all the rest of the wannabees to ‘think about’ before they even wear a suspicious look on their facial recognition file for the thought police to check out which will then filter to the confiscation police(like the ones starting to practice right now in Fla and Cal and maybe other states using the unlawful Red Flag laws which allow police to write their own confiscation warrants for potentially dangerous gun owners. The definition of that potential becoming almost everybody in a civil emergency.

      Npt to also mention that just like the first A-REV where only about 20 percent of the population were really into the Revolution. The rest were Torries (Democrats who liked the G) of those who simple don’t give a shit what happens to their country or anybody but themselvesand would snitch out all the militias and freedom fighters and resistors and so on for a case of High Fructose Corn Syrup caffein loaded soda pop in an instant. So don’t be letting your imagination get out of control into thinking there will be that many actual people interested in proactive resolutions. The reality is not commensurate to the actual amount of firearms numerically.

      Put another way, IT’S TOO FUCKING LATE, DUDE! The only chance we had was utilizing the last leverage of the individual votes in mass concert, like we did with Trump, but then failed to do with the midterm Congressional fiasco. The lleftist Tyrannists will likely take down Trump one way or another. They will probably defeat him in 2020 as they still will have a majority of the brainwashed commonfolk turn into a significantly higher margin than Hillary had with shifting Electoral weight. They’ could swing the Senate.

      Then it’s all…’Gone Girl’. All your artificial freedom and everything else. You’ll be lucky if you’re still alive if you are part of anything stupid. Since you ‘don’t give a damn about how you die, I hope it’s not too painful.

      And if you do survive the rapid crushing of all dissident resistance by the US Military (no need for imaginary foreign troops) you’ll be sitting there with your trigger finger in your ass wondering WTF happened, i hope your hyper-psyched fantasy has a redemptional epiphany that allows you realize that we should have organized and used what the visionary Framers gifted us with in the form of political power to take out a government we didn’t like, not wasting time with bullshit we can only believe in our midget mentalities, while we had the chance.

      And Henry, don’t pick on Daisy anymore by insulting her intelligence. She’s just trying to help. You are a depressing nihilist. If brains were a jar of canned fruit, you wouldn’t even be allowed in the root cellar. Plus you then sound even more like a punk ass whack job.

      • Thank you ever so much Mahatma. Horrible reality, but more accuracy = more successful preps. But I would rather die than live as a mind-controlled zombie.
        Is it really too late?
        Sure an awful lot of Americans rot in front of a TV and think they’re informed. But the evil cartel are not the only ones who have been planning since Kennedy.
        Many are waking up.
        There is “Irish Democracy.” –a sullen deeply angry population refuses to cooperate. That will be more effective than guns. But with so much mind control, I don’t think that approach will give us life worth living, either.
        I watched a video last night about compassionate people waking up to their power–described as 10-fold greater than the predators once they truly start communicating. There may be something in that.

    • Could you possibly be more contentious or uncouth? Wow-just wow! We read Daisy’s blog because we enjoy her point of view. By the way, you do realize that she is an American citizen, right? Nothing like threatening someone.

      • Agree 1stMarineJarHead
        We read Daisy’s articles because we want to learn, agree, or just enjoy the reading.
        Multi generation military family here. .

  • Continual bombardment from the media turning blood relatives against each other, considered now the enemy…who is the enemy? the enemy of the people?

  • THIS wasn’t a WAR,the WAR coming to MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT will make the war in the Balkans look like a picnic in the park on sunday,320,000,000 million people will die in the War in mystery babylon,,IT will go on for Five years and the only reason it will stop is because no one will be left alive to fight it,and when the war is over,the population will be about 100-300 people,not more then that,OUR FATHER said,I will require TWO DROPS OF BLOOD for every drop america has spilled in their BOGAS WARS,which was all of them..INCLUDING THE BALKAN war to destroy the YUGO CAR FACTORY,yea that was a US GOVERNMENT STARTED WAR,and not a soul in america cared what they did to those poor people in the balkans,IT WAS DONE TO KEEP CHEAP CARS OUT OF AMERICA..and every devil in america supported it,which was 90% of americans,there won’t be many survivors when this war is over,THERE ARE NO MEN in america to stand up to stop it,the women turned them into pussies,queers,homo’s and girlymen,AND their still doing it to this day,AMERICA your going to lose this war YOU started badly……

    • Yugos, as I recall, weren’t all that great of a car. I really don’t think that the war was started over cheap transportation. I believe that it went much deeper than that.
      One thing I noticed in the videos was the presence of UN forces, and if the US was experiencing a civil war I wonder if the UN troops would be likely to step in. It would be a golden opportunity for the EU or Russia to seize control of our country/government, which also begs the question of whether or not either of them would be the instigator in a US civil conflict. Also, what of our neighbors to the North and South? What would their involvement be?
      Thank you Daisy for a thought provoking, if deeply disturbing article. Great job, as always.

      • I don’t think you have to worry much about us to the north of you Miss Kitty. We have a PM who is more interested in his socks, photo ops, and virtue signaling about his gender equal government than actually doing anything for our country. Our military is shrinking, we’re constantly buying planes and ships from other countries…these are on their way out and yet our gov’t seems to think that buying them and modernizing them for billions is a good idea.
        I don’t think we’ll be a hindrance…..but we won’t be a help either. I think we live in an even rosier bubble than you folks in the US. A few years ago all across Canada the burning question was whether Tim Horton’s should have sippy cup lids for their coffee cups, or if they should stay with what they use now.

  • Stories of survival coming from this conflict are more than interesting, involving histories, they are classes in civil war survival techniques. One lesson I learned was the importance of bartering. It goes deeper. Imagine a land so decimated that a knife is more precious than gold. There is nothing more frightening, or stupid, than civil war. I pray people come to their senses. To that end, Daisy, thank you. peace

    • Beware taking these “lessons'” to heart.
      They were from another country, with different values and in a different time.

      They are good for getting an idea of how it might be, However chances are, it will be nothing like that.
      These people tended to live with extended family, having tight family ties and lived close together in the same region.
      Things that are not common here.
      Then you get to geography, they are small country with lots of precipitation and only a few, somewhat large cities.
      Again very different from us.
      Now add the political differences and you get a whole different picture.

      Understanding all the differences between the various people who tell about their national “SHTF” stories and how we are and we live, is the main factor in their stories being useful to us.

  • I remember how beautiful Sarajevo was as it hosted the winter olympics. It was a tragedy what it was turned into by warring factions lead mostly by egocentric power-hungry leaders and their thousands of thug followers. But thats what real war does, and the worst war is village against village and neighbor against neighbor. In our Civil War the combatants on both sides walked onto the field still individually possessing a common moral foundation, which lessened dramatically the atrocities of war. Not so today.

    BTW, I didn’t detect any “defeatism” in the article personally. Not sure what that other guy saw. The photos and videos speak for themselves.

    • The American Civil War was also fought at a time when we still had a much lower urban population. There were much fewer people generally, also, and the weaponry wasn’t as advanced as what we have now.
      Combining a larger urban population with little or no way to produce their own food, water and fuel with more advanced weaponry and less of a moral compass/ more of a disregard for human life will be disastrous.
      Modern populations of the US are severely lacking in basic survival skills, as well. Most people don’t know how to butcher meat, start a fire to keep warm (or keep one going), how to grow food, etc. And a majority of urban dwellers don’t have a fireplace or wood burning stove and no way to install one. No place to grow food. No place to set up water catchment containers.

      Daisy, would you be able to do an article with Selco on how people in the cities coped with these issues? Thanks in advance.

  • Hey Daisy
    I was 18 months 12 in 6 out in Bosnia in and around Zgon which is near Kljuc, 2001-2003, where I still have friends. During my time I attempted to try and figure out why the conflict was so viscous.
    The only thing that made sense was that friends became enemies and as such each was betrayed by the other. So everyone was really pissed and looking for vengeance.
    Maybe Selco can speak to this as my friends did not want to pursue the conversation.
    If you are at all Empathic take care because you will be profoundly affected. A war zone leaves it’s mark on you.
    Take care

  • You should NEVER wish for war. But the Bible speaks about a time for everything. So yes, a terrible war is coming. The final one in which every soul alive will be tested to the fullest.

    No wonder our LORD said to pray that you may be able to ESCAPE all these things and to stand before the Son of Man.

    The other world will be doing a different type of preying than yours.

  • What an educational and thought provoking post, Daisy. The pictures add a lot.
    I’ve read all the comments, and hoo-boy, did things get a bit heated there…
    I have to say that I agree with Namelus’ comment, that those old stone buildings certainly gave the Bosnian’s some measure of protection that most of us here in the US can’t rely on with our reliance on wooden structures. There are not even many of the Cold War era fallout shelters left around anymore. They tore down the last school in our town this past year that was a designated shelter. I think one or two of the churches in town might be ‘shelter’ worthy, but the certainly can’t protect the entire village, not to mention, would be primary targets.
    I also agree with Miss Kitty’s assessments. The firepower available now vs. the Civil War, coupled with society’s lack of knowledge of basic skills would certainly lend towards any type of ‘war’ today to be much more destructive with a much larger loss of life.
    Someone else mentioned (I apologize, the name escapes me at the moment), the role of the UN in the war in Bosnia, and questioned what role the UN could potentially play should the US find itself involved in a civil war. It’s not something I dwell on, but I do have some concern there, mainly, NWO agenda stuff, but like I said, it’s not my primary concern.
    I hope that ‘civil war’ does not come our way. Aside from voting, I just live my life and try to be as aware and prepared as I can.

    • Great post Grammy!
      I was a volunteer firefighter.
      You would be surprised how easy it is to hack through many of these frame and stick construction homes.

  • It’s unfortunate that the physical and mental wounds inflicted by the War on the Bosnian people cannot be plastered over like some bullet pot marked wall. Their wounds and scars are forever.

    Your main point Daisy, war isn’t pretty is very valid.

    But, …

    Yugoslavia was never really a Country as much as a loose Federation imposed from the outside on groups of people with different cultures and languages.

    It wasn’t a Civil War. Rather it was the right of the people to secession. Our “Civil War” was about State’s Rights.

    You’re making the same errors or facts of omission the MSN make during the 1991 – 1995 Balkan Wars.

    Best with Selco’s School.

  • If anyone is reading after thirty-seven posts, gonna say, it’s not prudent to make hasty parallels between historical events before studying and analyzing those events.

    For example the above article doesn’t mention The Ten Day War where the JNL (Jugoslavian National Army) invaded and bombed Slovenia for declaring independence from an oppressive taxation central government. The columnist George Will back in 1991 asked where have we heard of this before?

    That wh

  • It was bad. Neighbors killing neighbors. Political and religious differences.
    The mines were crazy. Approximately 7 million in a place about the size of Oregon.
    This experience shaped me and still influences me today.
    Your right on it being beautiful though. All of it can be all the way down to Macedonia and Albania.

  • I’m so glad you have this opportunity to experience these countries and Selco’s class. The info you share reminds us to keep preparing and to have accurate expectations of America’s future and our role in it. Whenever I’m tempted to get lax in my preparedness, I am reminded that retired military and police are those most determined to be prepared and to prepare others too….
    There is a good reason for this.

  • There are none so blind as those who will not see. Not in over a 150 years have we been so divided.

    Look up the definition of demagogue and no it isn’t a type of democrat. We have a president who actively seeks to divide us. Divide and conquer is well known as a battle plan. We have geopolitical opponent who actively sought to spread disinformation during our last election here as well as in other countries nominally considered to be our allies. Who in our government meets in secret with that opponent? Wake up people. Nobody will win a civil war except for our overseas opponents who will only be to happy to come in and pick up the pieces. (oh by the way that was an act of cyber-warfare)

    As for me I will not take up arms against my fellow countrymen. If the unthinkable actually happens I will be volunteering in my local ER doing the best that I can to keep you folks alive.

    • Have you been paying attention?
      The division in this country started before Trump rode the escalator down.
      Corporate MSM has only driven that division into overdrive.

  • John, while some of your insight on history is noteworthy, and I always encourage people to learn the correct versions if they want to understand life better and mitigate the inundation of Deep State delusions, but as usual with most history it is more hearsay redactions and interpolations, especially by politically or profit based agendas, so some of your facts are wrong which is mainly the result of intentional misrepresentations.

    First, amazingly, our own civil war is still being confused and the main direct causes is continuously an egregious example of how these things are obscured by those who have the power to do that. The reason, of course, is to keep us stupid. A power elite tactical advantage over peons) Then this DISinformation is taught in our agenda oriented school systems. It’s complicated, and i could easily do an hour lecture on it as i do in class, but I’ll skip to the brief and hard conclusion.

    The American Civil War was Not at all fought over slavery. Even the North had Slavery. Some of our Founders owned slaves. Lots of them…for cryin out loud! It was a way of life back then. Every large Government owns slaves. Which are its citizens. At most it was a minor co-incidental in the greater schema of economics going forward at that time period in the country, but NOT important enough to launch a major war. The triggering event that caused the first cannon volley was the FACT that ALL the Southern States signed a document together for Articles of Secession because they simply got tired of Northern politics and Lincoln’s policies in general. Which was the last straw for political bickering that had been going on in the country for years. And old sodomist Abe just wouldn’t have any of that. A divided America would cause huge economic problems for the North. Lincoln caused the war, not slavery. And lied about it later.

    The civil wars in Yugoslavia, specifically in Bosnia/Serbia/Hertsogovenia were something altogether different. And i see here in Daisy’s article and in the comments the true cause of the so-called civil war in Bosnia is also suspiciously being ‘avoided’ here. And even the carnage cannot really be much different or more horrible than the American civil war. And i surely won’t ever say Bosnia was worst than the horrors of Nam. Nothing in modern warfare topped that one. Except for the differentiation in sheer firepower and bombs, all war eventually degenerates into the worst of evil atrocities.

    Most here would not like the truth about the cause of Bosnia’s ‘civil war’ (always liked that oxymoron) So i’ll spare everybody. If more than a couple people comment back that they want The Truth, I’ll expend my valuable time to elaborate as succinctly as possible.

    My avocation mission now in life is to ‘enlighten’ the people as much as they want to be. So they can potentially work together to live better. Unfortunately, most do not want to know the truth because igorance–or delusion–is bliss. Especially if you throw in a free month of Neflix.

    • MM

      … gonna ask I guess, which John (?) on this post are you referring to?

      And, if John03, what point(s) specially are you referring to. A bullet-point list in short concise sentences would be helpful to clarify things.


    • I want to know the truth. Please expound and enlighten us. There is nothing I hate more than whitewashed history. I do know you are correct about the cause of our civil war. The dirty secret taught in schools is that it was about abolishing slavery. It was not.

      • Well Joan, i regret to tell you that you’ve been receiving carefully censored and manipulated education all your life if you went to public schools. (Also in parochial schools, especially Catholic, where most history was changed to fit their holy agenda) They are required to follow a curriculum set by the government Department of Education . I just read something a while back about a debate on the use of proper ‘wording’ to describe certain teaching points in history, (msn/news i think, “The American Curriculum: Is the U.S. a Democracy? A Social Studies Battle Turns On The Nation’s Values”). The Truth is that in order to further your NWO social agenda, You must indoctrinate (euphamism for brainwashing the youth , as Hitler once observed in his book Mein Kampf, that if you own the minds of the children, you own the future. They actually have forums, as outed by this article, to devise techniques for furthering their mind control agendas in education. And vote on the specifics for uniform compliance. And you thought that your teachers were always telling you genuine authentic History. LMAO!

        It’s why you never see complete head to toe portraits of the Founders, especially Washington, only top of the body above the waist if anything. It’s because they always wore their Free Mason aprons for special events. Which leads to other carefully obscured historic evidence proving that this country was Not intentionally founded on Judeo-Christian Values so adamantly expressed as historical fact by religionists.

        It’s why Islam’s prophet Mohammed also never is shown in pictures. There are some very rare early ones in existence from the 7th or 8th century in undisclosed Vatican and other archives before Islam banned any art renditions or illustrations. The reason being that in order to make themselves credible in a ‘religious context’, they had to profess that Mohammed was a prophet of peace and not the head chopping cavalry warlord he really was and depicted in those early full bodied paintings, complete with bloodied Sword and etc. History never mentions that he was seriously wounded at times. And so many other things omitted or changed for ‘marketing image’ in the great world religious competitions to come.

        It’s why history books will only mention that this War with ISIS in the middle East that we supposedly just won by removing the so-called Islamic state from Iraq and Syria, is over and dealt a severe blow to all but end the threat from ISIS. But they’ll never mention that the Allies caused 10 times more civilian deaths through collateral damage than all the people killed by Isis since they began!

        And so on and so on until you can’t belive almost any history you read anymore. My graduate work happens to be in Religious history but that encompasses almost all history. It gets depressing to knowing the truth. Especially when you also had a misspent youth background in LE investigations and come to conclusions that all our major wars were started by our Government, or rather the Deep State controllers behind it.

        Or that NASA lied so much about their Space accomplishments while pissing away multi trillions in our tax dollars that they have to now fade away while still able to garnish a favorable paragraph in the history books. at let future space exploration go private which is why all the Billionairs now, Bezos Zuckerberg, Brandon…most of them are building rockets. But history never mentions –even though these records are now public info, that now deceased ‘Father of NASA’ was a Nazi Colonel during WWII.

        That Pope Benedict was an Nazi infantry soldier and tried to block out his past by entering a monestary afterward until things cooled out and wasn’t ‘busted out’ until much later when careful researchers found out. But too late, he was already the Pope.

        And so on and so on and so on. There’s actually more history untold, than recorded. And most of it’s all bad or reveals amazing truths that ‘they’ never wanted exposed as it might unravel their control grip on the masses.

        Maybe tomorrow i’ll tell you what really happened in Bosnia, and why history can’t really repeat itself. That’s a physicial impossibility, but there can be good replications in similar events. In fact it certainly IS repeating itself as of this writing right here in the good ‘ol U.S. of A. That’s probably what Henry up there was alluding to by saying stupid stuff like ‘deporting Daisy’ when citizens can’t be deported elswhere. i’ll explain his hidden meaning and why people are losing it over that.

        ‘but more importantly, i’ll explain the real kinds of ‘civil war’ that we won’t likely have compared to ones that could happen.


  • Fifty-four posts, yet is anyone esle going to mention the 800 pound gorilla in the room?

    The Army of Republika Srpska and the paramilitary groups associated in Bosnia?

    Daisy’s article mentions snipers. Who were these snipers? Unlike the bullet marks left on the country homes, Daisy has a witness who can verify who they were.

    Draw a line on s map roughly between Sarajevo and Belgrade, Serbia, and there is Srebrenica, infamous for the massacre that unfortunately occurred there during the war.

    The examples can go on and on who did the killings. So why ignore this and shift the attention eslewhere? That would be an ‘ommission of fact’.

    What happened in Bosnia and other regions wasn’t a “civil war” as it was a War of the Serbian Military Aggression against peoples wanting to be free of an oppressive federation. (Fact of life: there will be someone who wants you to be their slave.)

    So, like, after Srebrenica the MSN reported it was an act of ‘civil war’ and therefore they, we, could ignore what was really happening, people wanting their independence.

    If you want to believe that what went on during 1991-1995 was a ‘civil war’ and not an aggressive act of a communist top-down military party, well …

    Then, good luck when the wheel turns and you’re arguing amongst yourselfs while someone is waiting in the shadows.

    At least, don’t say it was the peoples fault or it’s too complicated to understand or that’s what happens in the Balkans, when you’re trying to avoid the stare of the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

    Yea, enjoy the Bosian’s warm friendliness and food.

    • John 03 is right, it really wasn’t a typical civil war like we had in America. I the viewpoint of who was fighting who, and for what reason. Of course the actual triggering starts was quite similar. Which was the secession of territories they didn’t want to lose control over. Both Slobodon Milosovich and Ol Abe Lincoln did the same thing. They used their military power to force their will upon others and try to stop that. And since they had big military might, they could intimidate entire regions/states.

      The meaning of ‘Civil War’ traditionally meant small violent disagreements between smaller groups of the same in-country populations, in the same country usually based on ethnic or religious differences. Which is different from a Revolutionary War which is usually all the people (or at least those willing to fight) revolting against a Tyrannical Government. That’s where our American civil war and Bosnia parts company.

      Bosnia-Hertsogavinia was a Religious War. Pure and simple. Not much else. The actual warfare fighting and combat was more like a one sided slaughter by Yugoslavian government backed military against the Bosniaks, which were the Muislim majority of the population. This so-called civil war quickly re-named a war crime of ethnic cleansing. The war precurser of the anti-Muslim sentiment in that area of Europe was insane.

      But Why? Muslims are nice people, aren’t they? Why can’t they just all get along like we do for the most part here in America? Well, class, the answers to that, if anybody really cares, is for the next lesson.

      I’m not sure exactly what point that Daisy is trying to make here outside of how bad protracted urban combat gets for the indiginous populations. Or why she chose the Balkans for here learning experience? Maybe she never traveled to Europe and this could be a ‘business tax write off) ???

      Because as far as better examples of ‘surviving’ in more likely situations than hitlarian genocide by a larger superior military force, Which is very low on the odds booking here in America, there are better places to go and analyze what people are doing. I just got back from an Oath Keepers mission in Nebraska after that psycho flooding, and before that i was in North Carolina in full battle gear using NVD to help against dangerous armed looters that the local police were overwhelmed by. And if Daisy wanted to see how hard it is to recover from a devestating event she would need to look no further than Puerto Rico where there are people still without power and shelter and facilities and are living hand to mouth day by day? Or ibe couild analyze Venesuela for some first hand survival problems?

      The best thing for any prudent prepper to focus on reminds me of something a famous pistol competitor once said about accurate shooting. Forget all the complicated B.S. techniques and grips and stances and do just one thing. Learn to Never move your sights off the target before you pull the trigger. The same concept applies in prepping. Although some appropriate changes to strategies, dependent mostly on your BOL location if a major apocalyptic event occurs, the single most important thing to do is to make sure you can exist securely as long as possible without suffering and desperately scraping and even fighting for food and water and basic essential necessities.

      That’s the actual definition of prepping. And most long time preppers by now (but still only a few million of us here) can handle a few days or maybe a month, which should be enough for short term localized disasters. And sooner or later Fema/Red cross and other help will arrive with supplies. But the big one is a long term disaster, as someone mentioned above that shuts down the fundamental infrastructure of most of the country.

      Something very ugly like a no cure lethal virus, Ebola mutation, etc. Or a catastrophic large scale natural event like a Volcano or meteorite, or a complete power grid shut down. Any of which could last for months as normal venues of supply commerce ceases to exist.

      That’s a different type of prepping called Self-Sufficent Self-Reliance. This requires a good plan if you don’t have a lot of money and sime concentrated effort. Think ‘how do i keep feeding myself indefinately when there’s no electrical grid and at the same time maintaining reasonable security from outside intrusion or total anarchy?

      Marveling at bullet holes in war torn countries won’t help much for this level of prepping.

      • Hi, Mahatma 🙂 I’m over here in the Balkans for an urban survival course with Selco and thought I would share my observations. We do have articles about some of the other topics you mentioned, as well as a staff writer from Venezuela.

        Thank you for your interesting and well-thought-out comments. Welcome!

  • Ps (always a Ps)

    If you”re unable presently to visit the Balkans which are very affordable and worth the time, you’re enjoy yourself ….

    then next time you switch on an electric appliance or any other thing requiring alternating current, realize it was a Croatian, Nikola Tesla, who gave the world this gift.

  • Ps02

    Tesla was a naturalized American citizen born in Croatia to a Croatian mother he attributed his talents (Genius genius) to. His father was a Serbian Orthodox priest so Wikipedia describes Tesla as Serbian.

    Which in my opinion only is a way history is co-opted.

    Yugoslavian Christmas cards used to show Santa Claus with a red star on his cap. Great for kids growing up in a Socialist regime.

    Similarly events can be labeled just the opposite of what they are.

    Heck, I just described ‘Newspeak’, ie. 1984.

  • MM

    Interesting take regarding your views of the Bosnian conflict but while you began your post agreeing that it wasn’t a Civil War the rest of the post conflicted with that and then the verbiage meandered into areas not relating to my post and which I’m unfamiliar with.

    So, I hope readers will not associate my posts with your views.

    Of course, I am not an “expert” but an armchair poster. I questioned Daisy’s well written article on the point that the Bosnian War/conflict could be compared to the American Civil War of 1861-65 if that was what was inferred. Regarding a possible present-day conflict, I would follow Selco’s pragmatic articles and stay out.

    The Katanga Congo War, 1961-1965, would be a better comparison to the Bosnian War since it also involved UN forces.

    FUBAR = Arms Embargo + smurfs = unnecessarily prolonged conflict.

    I read during the Bosnian War when the Bosnian Forces, who had basically one rifle for every four soldiers at the time, routed the Serbian Military forces the UN General Rose would intervene claiming he was on a “Peace Keeping” mission. It was kinda like a police officer halting a mugging only to make sure the victim had nothing they could defend themselves with. And then allowing to the mugger to continue.

    Roger Water described the Bosnian War as what could have been a simple bar fight, went out of control due to having gasoline thrown on it. It has been said that WWI continuing into WWII was unnecessary. Add the Bosnian War to that list. Remember at the time the Iron Curtin was collapsing and people just wanted to be free of fifty years of oppression.

    Instead of the movie “Gone With the Wind”, perhaps “Wag the Dog” would be a more apt. Nah.

    Best,Welcome to OR

  • Daisy,
    Another great article. I truly believe that the next civil war will be limited in the people who start it. There are conspiracy theorists coming out of the shadows on both sides. NWO, Deep State, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus may sound like real things to these people, but it just ain’t so. Most people just want to live and let live. You do have for lack of a better word , religionists who want to maintain the status quo and those who want to promote those rights to everyone. The problem I see is that people think that if you give certain people or groups the same rights that you have taken as natural, that this will somehow take away your rights. There is nothing further than the truth. They push their “agendas” to educate and to claim the same rights that those who feel aggrieved feel are being trampled on. I really don’t understand in these modern times how people can be so backwards in their thinking. These new groups or people just want what everyone else already has. They are not taking away your rights, they are just asking for those same rights for themselves. Yes they may look different or sound different, but the one thing everyone has in common is that they are all AMERICANS.

  • This is a good wake up call to those who are always calling for a Civil war or to ” resist” or rise up for a cause.
    Most of them have no idea of what they are calling for.
    I suspect it could be far worse in some places in the US, if this happened here. Especially in our Big Cities.
    We have a much greater problem with Racism and political divides in most of those areas.
    We also have a lot more guns and which way that would take things is anyone’s guess. I think initially it would be real bloody because of that, but also quickly level off. Instead of the Average joe, just putting up with it and hoping it would end soon .
    I think they would form Vigilante groups to root out sniper’s and hooligans from their areas and protect their people, from all threats.
    Similar to the Texas Tower shooting of 1966, where police were joined by private citizens, who came armed with hunting rifles. In Texas, the locals raced to get their own guns and shoot back, helping to pin Whitman down and slow his shots. Police then made their way up the Tower and killed him.

    When Americans were commonly armed, as they were in the 1960’s, it was not unusual for them to aid police, or to take on evil gunmen by themselves. This still occurs today from time to time, in states with a lot of gun carrying citizens, who come to the aid of police officers, as needed.

    So I would hope that we here in the US, would have a lot less of the sniper problem, than what the people of Bosnia had to put up with.

  • Sad to say, but I believe Civil War is nearly inevitable at this point. If it does happen, it will be bloody, protracted, and the death toll will be uncountable. It won’t be over in a matter of days, it could conceivably last for decades.

    No one in their right mind would ever want a war, but unfortunately, we’ve an elected leadership that isn’t in its right mind. Authoritarian Mandates just fuel the division more. One Party in particular, went ’round the bend in 2008, and they show no signs of a return to sanity and rational thought. Tyranny is becoming Law, and Rebellion against Tyranny is a Duty.

    Sitting on the sidelines staying out of the conflict, may only briefly be an option. Eventually, neutrality won’t be viable.

    Everyone will be forced to make a choice, but I have no intention of entering the cattle cars passively, nor will I let the government disarm me. Because right now, we have the government our Founders warned us about. There is no such thing as a temporary loss of Liberties. Once those Liberties are suspended, they will find or create an excuse to deny their return in perpetuity. It has ever been thus throughout recorded history.

    Stay Locked, Loaded, Armored and Frosty Prepper Peeps. The pot is bubbling and could boil over without any warning.

    • Bemused Berserker,
      Thank you for bring this up again as I think it is even more relevant today than when Daisy first wrote it.

      Recently read a poll taken that 52% of Trump supporters, and 41% of Biden supporters were in favor of seceding from the union.
      Thing is, what does that look like from a “Civil War 2.0” perspective?
      Take a look at the 2020 election voting results by county:
      What the heck does a civil war look like from that perspective?
      Some areas, like mine, heavy red, might not even see so much as a single shot fired in anger.
      Others, oh, boy. I could see one half of a state going to war against the other (looking at OR or WA).

      Then there is the natural resources.
      Shooting war starts, our JIT/BAU system fails (heck, look at how strained it is now!). That fails, a lot of people, could be on both sides of a “Civil War 2.0” could die and not by warfare, but the foods supply/medicine stops.
      What about energy? CA imports most of its energy from a long way off, and in red areas.
      Same goes for water.
      The West coast controls most of the ports. Red areas could decide they do not want or need cheap products from China, and produce them domestically. Kinda sounds like “Build back better,” eh?
      CA does produce a lot of . . . produce. But I can go without almonds or avocado toast. Lots of areas can grow things locally. Go small, go local.

      Regardless, I do not want to see something like that happen. Too many people will not make it.

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